What Do Mormons Believe About Hell?

by
April 20, 2009

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch’intrate 

Q. What do Mormons believe about hell, and who is going there?

dantesinferno1

Short answer: Mormons believe in hell, but our conception of hell is different than the one that generally springs to mind, and we use the word to mean different things in different contexts.  For us, there are two “hells”, really.  One is a state of pain, guilt, and anguish where the spirits of the wicked will be after they die but before the final judgment (we often call this state spirit prison).  The other is an everlasting state of hell reserved for a few truly wicked (we commonly refer to this one as outer darkness).  Because the second state only applies to few, for the majority of people hell will not last forever: after the final judgment most people will receive some degree of glory.

Long answer: I wrote this post because I’ve found that people assume we believe in the traditional hellfire and damnation, and that causes a lot of misunderstanding. For instance, we claim to be the only religion with the “fullness of the gospel,” and that you have to be baptized by someone authorized by God (only in the LDS church) in order to be saved. People hear that and assume that we therefore believe that everyone else is “going to hell” in the sense that most modern Christians would use the phrase. That isn’t our belief, however.

What is hell? The word hell in the Bible is the English translation of the Greek word hades or the Hebrew word sheol. It originally referred to a temporary dwelling of spirits of all dead people, both righteous and wicked, and not solely as a place of punishment.  The word hell didn’t evolve the sense of being a place of everlasting punishment until later (see reference 1, or click the word hades above for further reading).

That doesn’t mean that there isn’t a place of suffering, however. We believe that when we die, our spirits go to a place that we call the Spirit World to await the resurrection and judgment. Furthermore, the Spirit World is divided into two general states: paradise and prison, depending on how you have lived your life (see Megan’s two-part summary of the afterlife). In the Spirit World, everyone gets an equal chance (if they didn’t have it on earth) to hear and accept the gospel. Unrepentant people will still suffer, and we still refer to their suffering as “hell.”

plan-of-salvation1

What is hell like? The torment of the wicked isn’t described in much detail in the Bible, but King Benjamin in the Book of Mormon taught that the knowledge of our guilt would be our torment:

Therefore if that man repenteth not, and remaineth and dieth an enemy to God, the demands of divine justice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord, and doth fill his breast with guilt, and pain, and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever. (Mosiah 2:38)

Alma (also in the Book of Mormon) wrote that we will not be able to look up to God, “and we would fain be glad if we could command the rocks and the mountains to fall upon us to hide us from his presence” (Alma 12:14)

It’s important to know that this suffering, while agonizing, will not last forever. Of those who would eventually inherit the lowest degree of glory, Joseph Smith taught:

These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie. . .These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fullness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work; (D&C 76:103, 106)

hellsign1

What about the sons of perdition? We believe that one day “every knee shall bow and every tongue confess” that Jesus is the Christ. With a few exceptions  everyone will be redeemed. Death and Hell will deliver up their captive spirits (2 Ne 9:12, Rev 20:13), all men will be resurrected and be brought forth to be judged and receive a degree of glory. The few exceptions I mentioned are called “sons of perdition.”

Sons of perdition are the truly evil. They are those that want no part in salvation. They deny the truth and defy God’s power, and crucify the Savior unto themselves, and put him to an open shame. They are the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord (D&C 76:31-38). They do not inherit a glory at all, but rather dwell with the devil and his angels forever. Their state is sometimes referred to as “hell” also, or “outer darkness,” though both of those words also refer to the temporary state. It’s hard to be a son of perdition. Really hard. Cain and Judas hard. For all intents and purposes, it’s not even an option for the majority of humanity.

If everyone will just be saved, why does anyone’s conversion even matter? I thought you’d never ask! It matters for two reasons: 1) The wicked will still suffer. A lot. Enough that no amount of raucous fun you could have on earth would ever possibly be worth it. And 2) There are very different degrees of glory that you will inherit forever, based on how much you were “willing to receive.” But that’s a topic for a different day.

(1) See Frederic W. Farrar, Eternal Hope (1892), xxxvi-xlii

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173 Responses to “What Do Mormons Believe About Hell?”

  1. Shantel

    So after reading all of these comments I want to share a few things that I have noticed.

    1. Interpretation. All of the debates on here seem to stem from interpretation. Not a  single person on here has presented any scripture that outright says what Mormons believe is wrong. Only ones that can be interpreted as saying they are wrong. It is far too easy  miss interpret written word. Look at Facebook everyday you see arguments over miscommunications. If someone says, “You are a pain” and is standing in front of you with a smile vs saying it with a scowl you know their meaning but if all the information you have is the text it is much harder to know their meaning. Which is why things like lol and ^- have become so popular because it shows emotion when it is other wise hard to do. Also the bible is not wrote as we write today and so again it is hard for anyone to be 100% about some of them. As we can’t see the writer, the pretense, the emotion ect. 

    2. I am noticing a pattern here that is quite alarming. The “other Christians” seem to be on here with the very arrogant standpoint that their interpretation is right and everyone else is wrong. That they have the only path to Heaven. While the Mormons seem to just be presenting their thoughts and letting everyone else decided. Let’s not forget arrogance is a sin. I have noticed this pattern not only hear but in America in general. I really think it is why so many dislike Christians. Too many seem to think they are Christ and it is their place to judge and police the rest of the planet. Telling a gay person, “You are evil and are going to hell.” is judgement and arrogant. Your “dislike” of another religion because they don’t 100% agree with you is about as unchristian as you can get. Read what Christ taught. He taught to love and accept everyone no matter their sins or their belief.  It is not your job to dislike them. It is your job to present the bible and the path to Christ. It is their job to take the path or not. It is not up to you to pass ANY judgement based on their choice. Based on what I am seeing here the ones being really Christian are the Mormons. 

    3. Christ was loving and accepting and most of all forgiving so to think that he would send a young child who was too young to know the word of God or some innocent soul who lived somewhere they were never given the chance to even have the choice to accept Christ or not is also arrogant and goes against everything Christ stood for. Why are you who have been lucky enough to know Christ any better or any more entitled to heaven?  Your not! Just because you were born in a western country that knows Christ does not entitle you to any better of a chance to Christ then anyone else. BTW Mormons are not the only religion that think you have a chance to accept and work for salvation after death. Many religions think this so why all the hate tword them? Catholics believe it as well. 

    Before you punish anyone to hell look at your own sins. Unless you are sinless which no one is I think you should worry about your own salvation.

    Thank you for letting me rant. Have a nice day all.  

  2. Willie

    Chad, regarding 1 Peter 4:6. Like you said, the scripture does not mention giving the dead another chance.  Nor did I.  People are given a chance, but if they reject it, that is their choice.  Ask yourself what is the point of preaching to someone if they are not given a chance to accept or reject it.  Perhaps Christ just wants to rub it their faces a little?

    Secondly, regarding 1 Peter 3:19.  The Textus Receptus states: ” en w kai toiV en fulakh pneumasin poreuqeiV ekhruxen ” (hope that shows up right) or more literally translated as “in which also to the spirits in prison having gone he did preach,”  I don’t see how your claim holds up here.

    Regardless, if we use your interpretations then I suppose I will have to write a letter back in time to Zechariah and John and let them know that a few of their writings no longer make sense.

    John 5:25 says “Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”  See that? Those dead that hear shall live. Sounds like a reason to preach to them. John 5:28 goes against your interpretation of 1 Peter 3:19 in that “all that are in the graves shall hear his voice.”

    Going even further back in time, we find Zechariah drawing on the same analogy we find in the parable of the rich man.  ”By the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.” (Zechariah 9:11)  Wait?  What’s that again?  There is a way for the prisoners to get out of the “pit wherein is no water?”

    Regardless, the original article states pretty concisely what Mormons believe about the topic.  And that’s what this site is for.  Take it or leave it since I doubt either of us will be convinced by the other’s arguments.  Hef’s suggestion above is probably one of the best I’ve heard.

  3. Patty

    Willie,
    Why do  Mormons believe the dead will still have a chance when Alma and Nephi say they will not?
     
    2 Nephi 9:38, “And, in fine, wo unto all those who die in their sins; for they shall return to God, and behold his face, and remain in their sins.
     
    2 Nephi 2:21, “And the days of the children of men were prolonged, according to the will of God, that they might repent while in the flesh…”
     
    Alma 34:32-33, “For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors.  And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.”

  4. Willie

    Patty,
    As a previous Mormon you should know the answer to that. It’s also in the article above since you’ve obviously forgotten or are just trying to be antagonistic.
    When we die, we go to a “spirit prison” or “spirit paradise.”  The second estate extends from your birth until the “final judgement.”  I see absolutely nothing in the verses you quoted that conflict with these teachings.

  5. Julie Snyder

    I am a Christian that has Mormon and Catholic family members.  Neither religion bases its beliefs solely on the Bible which is the word of God.  If one were to get their truth from the Bible it would discount the argument that there is a second chance after death.  The Bible clearly teaches that people that reject Jesus (as described in the Bible) and the gospel of grace by faith will go to an everlasting punishment called hell.  I see people quoting the Book of Mormon but Christians do not accept it as truth, neither do they accept the other Mormon writings such as the Book of Abraham, pearl of great price, etc.   Christians do not accept the Catholic church traditions as truth either, which is where the concept of purgatory comes from.  The Bible is the only book of truth that is trustworthy and can be proven out historically, archaelogically, and experientially.  The real question here is where do you obtain your truth from and why?

  6. Patty

    Willie,
    I suppose I don’t blame you for becoming slightly defensive when you’ve chosen to defend your stance in a public forum on a blog like this.  But your words remind me of what it was like having questions in Mormonism… at least in my experience. I am familiar with that proverbial “shelf” we are told to put questions on. But when I started pushing some of my questions, it turned out to always be my fault… for example: I should know that by now, maybe I am just not educated enough to understand, I’m not sincere enough, accusations of wrong intensions, and so on… (I understand all these assumptions from others, and have no bitter feelings at all; that is not why I left in case you are wondering).
     
    I understand that Mormonism does teach a second chance for some (who haven’t had the chance to accept or reject).  Especially the passages from D&C. I get that, but it just doesn’t seem to match up with some Book of Mormon passages to me.  I am not above admitting misunderstanding, or error on my part.  Has no one else ever wondered it?
     
    If you read further in that passage in Alma 34, it did give me questions that do seem to conflict w/ what Mormonism teaches today.
    Why in Nephi 2:21 does it refer to everyone (“children of men”) and why must everyone repent while in the flesh? The cross reference indicates this repenting in the flesh is to repent while still alive.  Why must everyone do this while alive if there is a chance after death?  Moses 6:57 also says “all men, everywhere, must repent, or they can in no wise inherit the kingdom of God…”
     
    Why in Alma 34:34-35 does it say we can not repent after death, how then can God save us? He can’t save anyone in their sins (Alma 11:37) and to not be in their sins, they need to repent. People can only repent while in this life (Alma 34:32-35). This kind of salvation we read about can’t be general salvation/resurrection – the kind all men get – because it has a requirement; the requirement of repentance (not all men will repent, but all men will be resurrected) and therefore has to be talking about eternal life the kind that requires repentance, which must be done while alive.  If you die before repenting you die in your sin and remain in your sins (2 Nephi 9:38). How can they remain in sins – which God can’t allow in the least, yet inherit eternal life?
     
    It also says those who do not repent before death that their final state is to be sealed to the devil (Alma 34:35).  Does final not mean final, but temporary? What if it is one day before final judgment and a person is in that temporary holding place of suffering and torment – spirit prison- then ends up in the 2nd or third degree of glory the next day? It doesn’t sound like a final place. Plus, the devil won’t be there, so how can they be sealed to the devil in one of the kingdoms of heaven? 
     
    D&C 1:31 says God can’t look on sin w/ any degree of allowance, and if someone dies in their sins (has not repented), and as we read, they remain in their sins. Do they not really remain in their sins?  How then,  if a person can not repent after death (Alma 34:34), is the atonement available to them? Mormon.org says, “To make His Atonement fully effective in our individual lives, we must have faith in Christ, repent of our sins, be baptized and confirmed by one having authority, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, obey God’s commandments, receive sacred ordinances, and strive to become like Him.”  A dead person can not meet all those requirements while in spirit prison. They can’t repent (Alma 34:34) or obey commandments and strive to be like Him (Alma 34:33 – no labor performed).  How then does His atonement cover them? Surely, Jesus says there is no way to the Father but through Him. If those in spirit prison can no longer repent, they are not covered by His atonement. No way they come to dwell in the Father’s kingdom by another way than Jesus and through His atonement. 

  7. Jodie

    Hi Patty,

    One of my favorite conference talks is by President Faust entitled “Dear Are the Sheep That Have Wandered”.  I like it because he talks some about this concept of repenting after death.  I’ve included the link if you’d like to read it.  What I like most about it is President Faust’s explanation about the difference between salvation and exaltation.

    I also read recently something that pointed out that none of us are going to reach perfection by the time we die.  It’ll take longer than that.  In other words, after we die we’ll all still have to do some repenting to become like Christ.  Plus, how can we condemn people who don’t even know the commandments?  It seems pretty straightforward that we must be judged by what we did with the knowledge we had while we lived.

  8. Patty

    Jodie,
    Hi, you seem very gentle in your reply, and I am sure a lovely person. I’m afraid though, and no offense meant to you personally, but this article further shows that what is taught in Mormonism today doesn’t square up with the Book of Mormon on this topic.  For example: the article you linked basically says wayward kids still have the chance to repent after death because of the bonds of temple sealing by worthy parents may be stronger.  However, Mosiah 2:33-41 says if you have been taught what is right, and transgress against it, you are in open rebellion against God and if you fail to repent before death, mercy has no claim on you and your final doom is to endure a never-ending torment. It sounds like Faust is trying to offer comforting words, but it just doesn’t agree w/ Mosiah.  

  9. Willie

    Hi Patty, responding to your comment to me.  I gather that you are primarily concerned about our beliefs because they appeared to contradict our own scripture.  From there, you pointed out all the problems this would cause.

    Most of that comment is based on the assumption from the first few paragraphs that men are not able to repent after death.  I’ll clear that up and then ignore the rest of the comment which is based on that assumption.  (Since with an incorrect base of course it’s not going to flow together.)

    Nephi 2:21 says that the days were prolonged so “that they might (not must, as you said) repent while in the flesh”. Moses 6:57 uses the word “must,” but qualifies it to say that they “must repent, or they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God.”  This is true for “all men, everywhere.”

    So the main argument comes down to Alma 34.  Note in Alma 34:34, Amulek says “that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.”  A spirit possessing a body indicates that the time he is talking about here is after one’s resurrection. After all are resurrected comes the “final judgement” which is, yes, final so far as I understand.  In case there is doubt about a scripture’s interpretation, one can use prophets to help find the correct meaning.  As you noted, there are plenty of other sources that fit this perfectly.

  10. Katie

    I’m hearing a lot of “arrogance” in all of the above……all who have “religion” based on God, His Son, and His Holy Spirit. But what I’m hearing that bothers me is “argumentative preaching”. This is how so called “holy wars” begin. I used to teach in a Christian school before I retired. You know what the most important Bible verse was (in my opinion) that I taught the children in every possible manner I could think of in hopes they would remember it in their hearts always? Simply, “God IS Love.” Every human being has different thoughts on what the words in the Bible mean to them. I believe if one has a personal relationship with God, Who IS Love, He will let you know what the words mean for you in a given situation. And studying others’ take on interpretaion can be valuable. But what remains TRUE, is that God IS Love! Please don’t argue religion, please focus on Love (God) and realize the differences, but celebrate the commonalities. Another verse you all probably know is, “Be kind to one another.” God (Love)bless you all.

  11. What was Jesus’ religion?
    What?
    Yes! I ask of you all that are arguing over so called “religion”. Was Jesus a “baptist”? A catholic? A muslim? A Mormon? A seven day adventist? What was his religion?

    In my teachings I was taught that jesus was the son of God who came to save this world and redeem us of our sinful nature. I was taught that if we believed in the father, the son and the holy spirit we shall be saved. It really hurts me to see people arguing over who’s “religion” is “best” or more “right” when all Jesus did while on earth was attempt to save souls, to do good deeds and show LOVE even to those who were deemed “corrupt”. I do believe that the fact that we argue over “religion” is simply a tactic of the “enemy” to continue to cause SEPERATION of mankind.

    The ultimate goal is heaven, or paradise, or the spirit world, or karma or whatever you chose to call life after death.

  12. Kassie

    Do we sit in a “limbo” after our death waiting for the final judgement? A good question to ask. I’ve always kind of thought of it as a “waiting time.” It is like if you were going to meet the “king” and you had on grubby clothes and were all messed up and needed a bath, you would need some time to clean yourself up, get yourself right, and rest before you met “the king”. Not LDS doctrine by ANY means, but it gives me some degree of comfort to think I will have that “waiting time.” The Catholics call it “purgatory.” I just call it “getting ready to meet the King.”

  13. Doug

    First, i would like to say I’m glad you printed out what the LDS church believes. Second, what I’m about to share with you will hopefully clear up alot about our bible we both use King James).
    I’m a converted Jew since Nov of 85. After accepting Christ as my savior I read through the new testament several times.
    I was convinced there were several contradictions on salvation. These verses were mainly in Matthew, James,and Hebrews. Immediately, I called the person who led me to the Lord. He said, II Tim. 2:15 is the key to understanding our bible. He then stated a key word in the bible is dispensation (how God dispenses his grace through out ages). They are pre law (genesis) under the law Exodus to Christs resurrection, then it’s church age,rapture, tribulation, millenium, and there after. What does this mean? Simply put not every verse is written doctrinally to the church age. Which we are in at the moment. So, what does this mean? If you look at verses that deal with faith and no works it’s church age. If you see verses with faith and works, it’s tribulation. If you see works, it’s old testament and millenium.
    Now my question to you is, what happens when you have two authorities(the book of Mormon and the bible)and one contradicts the other? Who, or which book becomes the final authority?

  14. Landria

    What about when the bible describes the place of whipping and gnashing of teeth ? Or in revelation when it says and and the souls of tw wicked asendeth up forever and ever ? Nothing seems temporary about that? And if everyone ( basically ) gets saved anyway what was Christ purpose of the cross ? To die ? His blood shed on our behalf is why we are saved , not any WORKS man should boast , our righteousness is as filthy rags in the prsence of a holy God . Works can’t save us only faith in Jesus Christ saves us . I am actually thinking of becoming Mormon , but no one no bishop, missionary , or brother or sister in Christ will convince me there is no hell , I’ve seen to many people die to know otherwise .

  15. Jen

    I was just looking at the Mormon Plan of Salvation flow-chart up above. This simple little chart symbolizes so many things about the Mormon culture where everything taught in the Bible has an “add-on” (at least one). Read the Bible. As a former member of the LDS church for 35 years, married in the temple, active mother and wife, I was taught to believe the “Book of Mormon to be the word of God” and basically the Bible was our second source for truth. Since leaving the LDS church I have begun reading the Bible earnestly. The Bible is the Word of God. Go to Utah Lighthouse Ministry @ utlm.org and do some research. Pray earnestly to receive Jesus Christ as your Savior. Cast your sins on Him. Be free!

  16. D

    OMG! TO MUCH DRAMA! JUST BE A DIFFERENT RELIGION!

  17. Doug

    My answer to my post dated 8 Oct. is this:
    You are the final authority. If you have to choose between two, or more authorities you are now god in all matters of faith and practice.
    I believe it’s God’s responsibility to give mankind his words. And he did through the King James Bible. It’s the only bible with no copy right and still the most read book in the USA.
    You see, the word became flesh. The bible is Jesus Christ.
    Your love for yourself is revealed by your critical attitude toward the words of God.
    My recommendation would be believe one book as your final authority (KJV).
    You don’t have to know, or understand it’s entirety, but you need to believe it. It’s like gravity, you don’t have to believe in it, but fall from a ten story building and feel the effects of it.
    Listen, Jesus Christ spoke of hell more than any other person in the bible. You need to believe him. You are a tri being. Made like God. You have a body, soul and spirit. Once you die your body will be buried, or burned.
    Your spirit goes up, or down. Your soul has a bodily shape and it will either go up to god or down to the heart of the earth(hell). Read Luke 16:24-31. The passage mentions tongue, eyes, and fingers being tormented in a flame. The soul lives for ever. What every person needs is reconciliation back to god, hence Christ providing that way to god.
    Once you realize how god see’s the human race and not how a man portrays it then you realize you need a saviour. See you have a sinful nature by habit. A foolish thought is sin. That makes you a sinner, or transgressor.
    It’s in your blood and you got it from Adam.
    Let me mention what partial truth will do. Satan spoke to Eve and said two thirds truth. Look it up, if you don’t believe me. Eve believed the one third that was a lie. It was enough to dam the entire human race.
    Could it be possible you have believed two thirds truth and one third a lie?
    Let me say this and I’m done. What do you lose if you accept Jesus Christ plus nothing as your saviour? A few minutes of time and an eternity with god. What do you lose if you don’t accept him? Repent, Believe, and confess him as your saviour and you’ll experience the greatest peace you will have ever known. I bet my life on it.

  18. Renee

    Honestly, I don’t think any of us will really know how things work until we cross over. Our best actions here on earth are to:

    Believe in God, Jesus & the Holy Spirit.

    Know that our lives are given to us by God and that each of us has a purpose for being here.

    Pray often — not just prayers or requests — but prayers seeking to get closer to God and asking for Him to show us His will each day.

    Try everyday to do the best that you can by being loving, patient and kind with people, especially family, so as to keep the family unit strong, which in turn keeps the world strong.

    Be generous with your time, resources and money.

    Don’t judge others. That is for God to do. Be accepting and loving toward others even if they don’t meet your approval. We are all here to learn to truly feel and express unconditional love.

    God bless you all!

  19. Chris

    Sheep and Goats. Jesus refers to them. Also, Jesus said that “narrow is the way to salvation and few there are upon it. Wide is the road to destruction, and many there are that travel there”. Its heaven and hell. Most will go to hell, not a few. Read the Bible and nothing else. To add to the Bible is to say that Gods Word was not enough.

  20. Chris

    I was raised Mormon (8-16 yrs. old). I now see how much wrong there is in that religion. I do not hate them, I believe that they are misled. I have a brother and a sister that have many children and still strong members of that religion. The people that attend that are Mormon are very, very kind sweet people, who love the family unit with the love of Christ. I am very impressed with these family units. But the teachings are false. Paul wrote to the church in Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

    7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

    8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

    This is exactly what Joseph Smith said he did! received another doctrine from an angel (Moroni) with a new belief system. Was not God’s infinite sacrifice of His Son, enough? Apparently not for Mormonism. My disciple Paul (who saw Jesus, and performed miracles through the name of Jesus) trumps a so-called prophet, even if he was a true prophet (which Joseph Smith is not). When Jesus was slain on the cross, he blessed the people who was killing him. The first martyr of the church Stephen did about the same, many martyrs are singing to their deaths (Foxes Book Of Martyrs) not Joseph Smith, he had a smuggled pistol, and fired it into the crowd that was attacking him. So much more to comment on, but really don’t think that this one will make the blog.

  21. 1

    Chris,

    Joseph Smith did not say he was teaching a new gospel, he was teaching the original one restored. And guess what Paul was talking about when he said which one to pervert? The original.
    Joseph Smith did nothing contradictory or wrong, look at the LDS teachings and the teachings of Christ and they match up perfectly.

  22. Dylan

    You’re all insane.

  23. Tone

    Thanks a lot!! I am in the process of converting to mormonism and was wondering about the hell depicted the book of mormon. This helped a lot!!!! Thank you so much!!!!!

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