Do Mormons Believe in the Trinity?
by SteveStaceyA core belief of all Christians is the testimony of Jesus Christ as divine. The nature of the godhead — God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son and the Holy Ghost — is a key topic in religious discussion, and has been debated for centuries. The traditional Christian view describes the godhead, or trinity, as united in substance and in person in a way that is incomprehensible by man. As Latter-day Saints we believe as all Christians do “in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost” (Articles of Faith 1). We believe that they are one in purpose and mission and that they are three separate divine beings.
A brief study of history will show that the idea of numerical separateness of the godhead is not new, and was believed by many early Christians. For example, Arius, founder of Arianism, was ruled a heretic after the first council of Nicea for preaching, among other controversial doctrines, the separateness of God the Father and Jesus Christ.
There are many biblical passages which clearly show the separateness in person of God the Father and Jesus Christ (see Matthew 3:16-17, Luke 22:42, Acts 7:55-56). However, there are many others which also state that they are one (see Deuteronomy 6:4, John 10:30, 1 John 5:7). This dichotomy has long been recognized, and the First Council of Nicaea was convened in AD 325 to, among other reasons, set forth in formal creed the official view of the church. The famous Nicene creed, which was adopted at that council and continues today as a cornerstone statement of many current doctrines of the trinity, describes Jesus Christ as “God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father” (The Nicene Creed).
The convening of councils for the construction of creeds has been the method used by “traditional” Christian churches to resolve doctrinal disputes. As Latter-day Saints we believe that there is a better way: through revelation given directly to authorized prophets, God has revealed and continues to reveal many gospel truths. Among the doctrines made clear in modern times by revelation is the nature of the godhead as three beings, united in purpose and separate in person. We value the inspired words in the Bible, and we believe that the same spirit which inspired its writers still inspires holy men today to teach doctrines that are equally true and valuable.
It might be said that the doctrine of the trinity is the very first of all doctrines in which Latter-day Saint teachings differ from the traditional Christian view. The first prophet called of God in modern times was Joseph Smith. When he was a boy, disputes among churches prompted him to ask God for himself which church preached the eternal truth about God and salvation. In answer, God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to him in glorious vision. God the Father himself said to Joseph “This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!” (Joseph Smith – History 1:17). What better example can there be of the unity of the Father and the Son as separate beings?
As stated earlier, Biblical evidence for the LDS doctrine is abundant. I have not focused on them so as to emphasize that we do not base our belief on a creed made by scholars concerning an expert interpretation of the Bible. We base our belief on the testimony given to us by the Holy Ghost that the first vision of Joseph Smith was real and prophets continue to reveal truth about God. I strongly recommend that any reader who wishes to see strong Biblical evidence of our belief read this talk (or watch it) by an apostle and special witness of Jesus Christ. I invite anybody who wishes to discover the truth of our message to study the scriptures, pray and ask God, who will tell you by the Holy Ghost that it is true.
This article was written by guest author Stephen Stacey
Very nice.
So do you think the trinity shield does NOT represent the teachings of Mormonism regarding the Godhead? (I think it does NOT).
I much prefer the picture of the First Vision as a representation.
Two points –
1) The ‘councils’ here dismissed were convened because, according to the church at the time, they had the divinely bestowed authority to seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit on questions of this nature; thus, they believed the creeds were inspired. This is not terribly unlike what we describe the First Presidency and Council of the Twelve. Setting up a simple dichotomy is an oversimplification; the ‘better way’ here described is not unlike how the early church leaders understood what they did. The Catholic Church states that the will of the ecumenical councils represents the convened mind of the Church guided by the Holy Ghost.
2) I would not so easily dismiss the role of unity in divinity. After all, out own theology teaches that exaltation only comes through sealed relationships – something more metaphysically actual than simply ‘in purpose’ – and LDS thinkers like Blake Ostler have made the case that the members of the Godhead are God in part because they participate in a common relationship that metaphysically transcends anything we can immagine.
Eric,
Thanks for your comment. I should have clarified: The trinity shield does not accurately represent our belief of the Godhead.
Eric,
Sorry for the double comment, but I should clarify further. We don’t use the trinity shield in any way to describe our view of the Godhead, and probably most Latter-day Saints would not recognize it at all. With the right twist you might be able to fit it into LDS doctrine, but it would be a stretch.
I am glad to hear you say that. I think there are some LDS who are trying to make the church sound more evangelical like than it is.
Like this post here
Matt,
You bring up some interesting thoughts. Firstly, about the councils: I believe that this argument is really indefensible. With any group claiming a divine authority, detractors will contend that such is simply not the case, and can be true in a contemporary setting just as much as in the time of the councils. Indeed, this same tension may be just as old as history itself. Perhaps it is the nature of the claim, tending to be subjective and limited to few people, which lends itself to this problem. Others looking through their own goggles at the history may contend that such councils were convened to unify an empire under one political head and to do so to avoid an otherwise crumbling and dissident people. Really, I think that both arguments are indefensible (and therefore, probably not worth arguing unless a consensus could be had).
Also the claim to having divine authority and guidance does not, of necessity, equal actual divine authority and holy guidance.
Secondly, the statement you made regarding the “metaphysically actual” seems confusing. Do you mean to say that ‘sealing’, according to Mormon theology, is something both abstract and actual, or something transcending reality but being reality? I would like some clarification on this point.
Further, that the members of the Godhead enjoy a common relationship which “metaphysically transcends [maybe redundant?] anything we can imagine”: if this statement means what I think it means, it does not seem to be a blending of identity (or loss of ‘separate’-ness) for the Mormons. Though Mormons claim a different view of such relationships (physically) between the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost than the traditional view, we do not claim to have a perfect knowledge about how God (any of them) operates completely, and that such a statement by Mr. Ostler is a dogmatic way of stating “we don’t know”.
Cheers.
Eric, you really misunderstood what I was trying to accomplish with that post of mine, “The Mormon Trinity”.
I was NOT “trying to make the church sound more evangelical like than it is.” I simply had an empathetic insight into how that diagram CAN apply in some ways to our Godhead–three separate Gods, yet “one God” (as our own scriptures assert), or Godhead.
(If there were individual circles on each of the corners of that triangle, perhaps that would even be better for our purposes, since we believe, after all, that each of the three divine persons are actually three separate beings.)
I invite you to read my most recent thoughts on the Trinity, the Godhead, Their “oneness” and our “oneness” with Them. I doubt you’ll find anything to disagree with:
“That They May Be One As We Are One”
http://latterdayspence.blogspot.com/2009/05/that-they-may-be-one-as-we-are-one.html
I have questions. The Godhead is an idea that I have not grasped fully despite being a member for about a year. I understand the concept of the trinity and that the concept of the godhead is different from the trinity. I understand that Heavenly Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are three different persons. But I’m not sure how they are “united in purpose.” How does that work? Can you explain it in a way that relate it to how we as humans function? How do they know what the other members of the Godhead are thinking? Do they all get together and say “here’s the plan and this is how we’re going to execute it”? Or is the plan the Plan of Salvation and all three members automatically know how to make it work? I suppose with ‘perfect knowledge’ the three members could know things in a way that is different and not comparable to how we know things. Help?
Sunlize,
Good to hear from you again! I hope everything has been well with you!
So I’ve often heard the godhead being compared to a bishopric, or the first presidency. I’m not sure how far you can take that analogy, but in the “unitedness” aspect I think it’s good. Also, in the scriptures, it does seem to me like the Father is “more in charge” than the other two. Again, not sure how far you can take that. Maybe similar?
I’ve always understood the oneness of the Godhead in terms of the alternative, which is polytheism. Occasionally my trinitarian Christian friends will tell me that our belief in three separate beings in the godhead implies that we are polytheistic. I think the point of God’s stressing that he is “one God” is to point out the fundamental difference there.
The Jews were the first known religion to worship only one God, which is very much what set them apart from the rest of the world. Consider the Greeks, or the Egyptians. They had a God of the sun, a God of the moon, a God of fertility, a God that controlled the water, a God that managed death, a God for harvests, for getting drunk, for healing, etc. Every God did something different. They had different purposes, really. Sometimes they even fought with each other. Those people truly worshiped multiple gods.
I’ve always thought of the stressing that our God is “one God” to be a setting apart from the predominant religions of the time. Because there is obviously something more “one” about the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost than, say, the Gods of the Egyptians.
I can’t even begin to fathom all the ways that the Father and Son are “one”. I know they’re not “ontologically” one, but they’re infinitely more one in terms of relationship, unity, and love, etc. I really like the way Blake Ostler put it on another blog in which we were conversing with some evangelical critics. He wrote:
“Just for the record, I assert that both the Father and the Son are eternally divine. However, there is a priority of the Father in the sense that the Father offers his love to the Son, and in each moment of eternity the Son has freely chosen to fully return that love. They both offer their love to the Holy Ghost and the HG has freely chosen in each moment of eternity to return that love. It is in virtue of this loving interpenetration of freely cooperating wills that these three are one God and also have been eternally one God. Now they are inviting us into this same relationship.”
I think that one thing we often forget is that singular nouns are often used to describe plural things or people which are united in purpose; for instance, congress. We all know that there is more than one person in congress, but we refer to this body of men and women as congress.
I find that the scriptures often, but not all the time, refer to to God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost in this way.
Also, just an interesting factoid:
The scripture cited in 1 John 5:7-8 which reads:
5:7 “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.”
Is called the Comma Johanneum. It wasn’t part of the original 1 John; it was added into a few manuscripts during the late middle ages.
Dave, even if scribes felt like they needed to things in to solidify their views (as Bart Ehrman has taught that they did), it doesn’t make a lick of difference to me. I still see no need to believe the only way to understand God’s oneness is to understand God is ontologically one. There are more ways to understand “oneness” than ontologically or numerically. Many Christians read their own assumptions into the text, but the text itself does not state what they think it states.
As I said on the post I provided a link to above, “Christ prayed in John 17:11 for His disciples “so that they may be one as we are one” (New International Version). The King James version says “that they may be one, as we are.” The New Living Translation puts it like this: “united just as we are”. Obviously, this is not inferring that we are all supposed to become one substance or being–but one in terms of relationship, unity, and love. This is more in line with how I view the unity of the Godhead. Jesus wants us to be one with Him and Father, just as He and His Father are one.”
In the first sentence above I left out the word “add”. Scribes added things into the biblical manuscripts. That’s just historical fact. But it still doesn’t make any difference.
See “Bart Ehrman: “Misquoting Jesus: Scribes Who Altered Scripture and Readers Who May Never Know”
http://latterdayspence.blogspot.com/2009/04/bart-ehrman-misquoting-jesus-scribes.html
Clean,
I don’t know if you thought my last post was in response to your conversation, but it wasn’t meant to counter anything you’ve said. Just an interesting fact. Carry on.
I didn’t Dave. I agreed that it was an interesting fact, and I was just piggy-backing on your comment. Thanks.
In other words, even adding into the manuscripts that God is “one” doesn’t have to mean that God is ontologically or numerically one. That’s why it doesn’t matter to me if 100 such references were added–still doesn’t change anything. Their oneness comes in the unity of the three divine persons in the Godhead.
Dave – Yes, I’m still here.
Sometimes I get buried under school stuff and life, and then I have less time to read and post on blogs. And somehow I missed that you guys changed domains so my google reader wasn’t updating anymore.
Anyhow, I think the difference between the godhead and polytheism can be seen in how we pray. When I pray I may be directing it to one part of the Godhead but all three members are able to hear and answer my prayer. For example, I pray to Heavenly Father (“Dear Heavenly Father…”) but I do so in the name of Jesus Christ (“in the name of Jesus Christ, amen). And then during and after the prayer I rely on the Holy Ghost to give me answers and/or direction.
If a polytheist prays to Athena, he does not expect Aphrodite or Zeus to hear or answer his prayer.
Does that make sense?
Hey guys, one thing is true: The Trinity will always be a mystery and there is no shame in that.
However, trying to poke holes in factual church history and biblical writings is comical when there are a slew more inaccuaracies in the chruch of LDS. A non-morman (or former mormans) could easily poke fun at the notion that the core beliefs of the chrich of LDS come from a hokey “an angel came to me” bit by Mr. Joe Smith, a “political” figure mind you.
The “Trinity” preserves the facts Jesus revealed about God.
The basic fact is Jesus himself and what he said. Jesus was once asked what was the greatest commandment and he said, “Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.” (Mark 12:29) In other words, Jesus affirmed that there is one God but he also said, “I and the Father are One” (John 10:30) and accepted the worship of his disciples (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9; 28:17; John 9:38). He said, “He who has seen me has seen the Father” (John 14:9. )He said, “When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.” (John 15:26)
When you put together all Jesus’ teaching about God and try to express it, you come up with the Trinity — Father, Son and Holy Spirit – Three in One.
The trinity is critical in the Christian faith for obvious reasons. As non-christians, I can understand the Mormon confusion.
I pray everyday for non-believers. God Bless!
Well, gosh, Dan, with a “respectful” comment like that you’ve almost persuaded me to become a creedal Christian. Where do I sign up?
Actually, as an LDS Christian, I prefer a coherent theology–one that’s not self-contradicting.
Dan,
As I’m sure you already guess, we don’t consider those scriptures to be at all contrary to our beliefs. God and Jesus Christ, as you read in the article, are “one.” One in purpose and in worship from us.
The scriptures in the bible that indicate that Jesus Christ and God the Father are two separate beings are abundant. So abundant that I won’t list them here. But here is a list of 61 of them for you to read at your leisure.
It should again be emphasized again that although we see the abundance of biblical evidence pointing towards a nontrinitarian God, the main reason we reject the trinity is because God and Jesus Christ revealed themselves to Joseph Smith separately.
very interesting, but I’m a little confused. If Mormons believe that God, Jesus, & Holy Spirit are seperate but are God, does this mean that Mormons have 3 Gods? (as oposed to Christians who believe in 1 God). Also, do Mormons believe in any other Gods other than Jesus, Holy Spirit, & God?
Good question. We believe that all three members of the Godhead deserve the title “God”, so in that sense we believe in three gods. In saying this, I warn you not to fall into the trap I have seen so many others do. People who do not wish to learn will often look into something with the intention, conscious or otherwise, of finding something disagreeable so that they can justify themselves in looking no further. Please don’t allow yourself to so narrowly define what it means to believe in “one god” that you fail to see how the doctrines revealed in modern times agree so well with what the Bible teaches. I promise that every belief we teach can be reconciled with Bible teachings, and if you’ll let yourself learn of it then you can see your understanding of the Bible and about Jesus can grow by leaps and bounds. Can you do that?
Can I quote one of the entries?
“In the first sentence above I left out the word “add”. Scribes added things into the biblical manuscripts. That’s just historical fact. But it still doesn’t make any difference.
See “Bart Ehrman: “Misquoting Jesus: Scribes Who Altered Scripture and Readers Who May Never Know”
http://latterdayspence.blogspot.com/2009/04/bart-ehrman-misquoting-jesus-scribes.html”
I’m sorry- but most Christians today would reject anything that Ehrman states. There are better theologians than that to quote- who seem to disagree with Bart’s conclusions (he has a huge axe to grind that if you look long anough will find and will enlighten the discussion). If you were to come to my house and start quoting from Mr Ehrman I would laugh you out of the building. Really. He is that bad. So bad in fact that you wouldn’t ever reach the point of talking about your own faith to me. It would be an affront to my own beliefs. I have friends who read Ehrman so that they can know what he is saying, but most won’t entertain him at all.
I know that some see the Johannine portion of I John as an ‘addition’ by ‘redactors’, but the history does not *necessarily* prove that is the case. Theologians from both liberal and other camps tend to agree to disagree on this. It matters not. As a Christian seriously looking at the LDS faith with a view to moving over to it I see the argument against a traditional ‘trinity’ as a straw man. It would be better to focus on the existence of a relationship between the members of what we call the ‘Godhead’. One theologian I know calls this the principle of ‘the God who is never alone’. I prefer that.
The important question for a Christian (and by that I mean a non-LDS Christian) is whether a group professing Christian belief declares Jesus to be God. It is here you will often find a battlefield. An example of Christian theology on this subject far more reliable than Ehrman is Robert M Bowman’s “Putting Jesus in His Place”, a fine example of critical and historical thinking on the deity of Christ. On the trinity you will find many views- from orthodox to evangelical. Most all agree that God is ‘One’ in trinity. How’s that for clear
To me it seems your view of the Godhead is clearer than most, and if I were you I would be using that to help people understand the God who is never alone, rather than some wacky theologian who professes a Christian faith but is mostly accepted by those outside of the Christian faith
Sorry if I offended anyone there
Paul
Not at all, Paul. No offense taken. I’ve never read anything of Ehrman’s, but I appreciate your warning and I might have to take a look at Bowman.
It’s tantalizing to jump into the fracas and argue the nature of God from the trinitarian worldview, but we Mormons need to remember that our conception of God comes not from theological debate. It was revealed to a prophet.
And I agree with you, Paul. Our view of the Godhead is exceptionally clear.
This is a fascinating discussion! I can see I’ve joined in rather late. I just want to make sure I’m hearing this point of Mormon doctrine correctly. (I’m not Mormon, so this is all new to me.) Is it true to state that Mormons believe that the Heavenly Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost all deserve the designation of God, but that each are three distinct parts of the Godhead? In other words, there are Three, but it is distinct from a Trinity because there is no “perfect” unity (or Unity), as Trinitarian Christians would assert. Is that close to what you’re trying to say here?
@ Mark:
We would say that there is a “perfect” unity between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. However we do not believe that a unity of substance (ie. being part of the same being) is necessary to achieve a perfect unity. They are one in intent, knowledge, purpose, love, etc.
Ah, good. I see what you mean about unity. Thank you for clarifying, Alexander. Is what Steve said above (“We believe that all three members of the Godhead deserve the title “God”…”) normative Mormon understanding of the revelation?
I have to say that I’m thankful for this blog. It’s really been helpful in understanding what Mormons believe. There’s a lot of information out there that gives some rather biased and reductionist explanation of Mormonism. This, along with the LDS’ website, have been helpful.
You’re welcome. Steve is accurate, in a manner of speaking. We do consider each member of the Godhead to possess the attributes of deity. In my opinion it is overly confusing to say that Mormons worship multiple gods, however, as we don’t really see it that way.
The Book of Mormon makes this doctrine very clear:
“And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way;and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.” – 2 Nephi 31:21 (italics mine)
http://lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/31.21?lang=eng#20
With all due respect, do Mormons really think it is likely that God would wait until the eighteen hundreds to reveal His truth to one boy who was uncertain about his faith, leaving the world in error for nearly 1900 years since the Ascension of Christ? I’m not saying this to be antagonistic, I’m just genuinely curious about your views on this.
God bless you.
I’m sorry for jumping into this so late as well…but this is fascinating to me…
It is interesting to me to see how people deal with the seemingly conflicting scriptures that define three completely divine beings (Father, Son and Spirit), and only one god. Perhaps Mormons have it right when they say that there are three separate gods who share the title of godhead, or perhaps Christians have it right when they proclaim what they can’t possibly understand, but just what the Bible says, that there are three distinct personages which are divine, and yet there is only one God.
Without being able to agree, it seems all we can do is to look at the ramifications of each belief.
If there are three gods that make up the godhead, one the literal son of another, there is an implication of a hierarchy within that godhead. If that is true, then how is that hierarchy established? Brigham Young taught that “The Lord created you and me for the purpose of becoming Gods like Himself; when we have been proved in our present capacity, and been faithful with all things He puts into our possession. We are created, we are born for the express purpose of growing up from the low estate of manhood, to become Gods like unto our Father in heaven. That is the truth about it, just as it is” (Journal of Discourses 3:93).” The idea of three distinct gods in a hierarchy needs a way for the hierarchy to be established, and that way is provided by Mormonism through the idea of eternal progression. Eternal progression however, also creates not just three, but an infinite number of gods, and a gospel that judges the efforts of man to determine the level of his personal progression toward godhood as well.
By adhering to God’s proclamation of His eternal Oneness, Christians can glorify His past, present and future, and can submit to His eternal justice and power. And by believing in the divinity of the Father, Son and Spirit, Christians can experience the unfathomable gift of God’s sacrifice and constant presence with us.
This is all so confusing on what Mormons actually do believe. Jews & Muslims believe in 1 God with only 1 manifestation of God. Christians believe in 3 manifestations of 1 God (the trinity) which is confusing in itself. Mormons believe (I think) in 3 Gods with the possibility of human deification like when the Roman Emperors were deified after death. The Hindus believe in 1 God with many manisfestations of God. Buddhists don’t believe in God. To me the only true monotheists are the Jews & Muslims with the rest (Christian, Mormons & Hindus) polytheistic. But the Mormons seem to be the most polytheistic of all even beyond the Hindus since they believe in the possibility of human becoming Gods so Gods could number in the millions! To me only the Jews, Muslims & Buddhists make any sense at all but religion was not made to make sense I guess.
Joe,
I’m curious: why is monotheism the golden standard of religion in your view?
You could reasonably classify Mormons as Monolatrists, “those who recognize the existence of many gods, but consistently worship only one deity.” In this sense we’re much different from ancient Rome (we don’t worship deceased Mormons) and closer to the polytheism of Moses and ancient Israel (before the Deuteronomic reforms of King Josiah around 600 BC).
Thaddeus,
Monotheism is not the gold standard of religion in my view but seems to be in practically everyone else’s. In my view the only true monotheists are the Jews & Muslims. Christians, Hindus & Mormons say they worship only 1 God but somehow they seem to fit in many others in the process. I could care less what fairy tales people people believe as long as they leave me alone.
Joe,
You said, “Christians believe in 3 manifestations of 1 God (the trinity) which is confusing in itself.”
Just to clarify, the Christian view of God is that which the Bible states. God is One, but the Father, Son and the Spirit are all God…three eternal, distinct persons…all God. The distinction is the eternal part. All three persons have existed from eternity; all where there and participating in the creation. None of them were created by any of the others. That is the difference between Christianity and any belief system that names more than one God. And while it is confusing, any Being that is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient; who created me and everything else that ever was, is probably beyond my understanding. That is why John says that eternal life is to know God…we will be able to spend eternity coming to know and enjoy and love our God!
I know the definition (I went to Catholic school) of the trinity. I just find it kinda silly & made up. It took almost 500 to “figure it out” over the dead bodies of millions of people. I still say the Jewish/Muslim definition of God as one & indivisible makes the most sense (not that I believe .
Would you say those who don’t believe the trinity (the Jews & Muslims for example) will go to hell? Ths is what the nuns said in Catholic school & I found it so cruel, unbelievable & callous that it destroyed any chance I had to believe in such a Hitler-God.
Joe,
I don’t believe that either. I think you’d find out a lot about God that you would intuitively agree with if you’d give yourself a chance to keep looking.
I don’t think we will ever know God fully until we are living with Him for eternity, but until then I’ll just read His word and allow His Spirit to help me try to make sense of it.
So, I am confused. Does LDS believe in the Father as a God, and Jesus as a God, and The Holy Spirit as a God? Or are They One God? In Three physical Persons. I understand one in purpose, because even if they were One God not Many gods they would still be one in purpose. I just want to know if LDS believes in One God or Many gods. Thank you so Much!
Christ said he who sees me, sees the Father. He also said to the pharisees, “I and my father are one and the same” A Clear way to see the triune God is the father and the son( begotton, not made). and the Holy spirit being the self donating love between the father and the son. God is a triune God, not three separate entities.
Mandi,
Here is what I found in the bible dictionary (an LDS study help) concerning what we believe:
“God: The supreme Governor of the universe and the Father of mankind. We learn from the revelations that have been given that there are three separate persons in the Godhead: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. From latter-day revelation we learn that the Father and the Son have tangible bodies of flesh and bone, and that the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit without flesh and bone (D&C 130:22–23).
When one speaks of God, it is generally the Father who is referred to; that is, Elohim. All mankind are his children. The personage known as Jehovah in Old Testament times, and who is usually identified in the Old Testament asLord (in capital letters), is the Son, known as Jesus Christ, and who is also a God. Jesus works under the direction of the Father and is in complete harmony with him. All mankind are his brethren and sisters, he being the eldest of the spirit children of Elohim. Many of the things that the scripture says were done by God were actually done by theLord (Jesus). Thus the scripture says that “God created the heaven and the earth” (Gen. 1:1), but we know that it was actually the Lord (Jesus) who was the creator (John 1:3, 10), or as Paul said, God created all things by Christ Jesus (Eph. 3:9). The Holy Ghost is also a God and is variously called the Holy Spirit, the Spirit, the Spirit of God, etc.”
I hope this answers your questions about what we believe!
Very interesting reading. I hvae been led here by the Holy Spirit of God.
I would like to say initially that I am not posting to convert anyone or
to say this is how good MY OPINION is. I am only relaying information as it is found in the NKJV of the bible. I ask that others read this, pray and ask for knowledge, wisdom, understanding and humility.
With much contemplation, the best explanation that has helped me understand [within my human limitations] is the following analogy. Snow, Ice and Fog are all Separate forms of the ONE; namely Water. Yet, all three can exist at the same time and have separate identities but in true real terms are but ONE with each performing their own common work according to the distinct personal property of which it is made.
The other interesting point is that I see no reference to the Old testament. God clearly does speak and say who He is in the Old testament as well as the New.
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 42:8 I [am] the LORD: that [is] my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Isaiah 43:3 For I [am] the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt [for] thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.
I believe it is not only egotistical, but futile for us to try and define God to fit our limited minds. We do not have the capacity to comprehend the wonders of the universe or its Creator. That’s why we call it a faith. So whatever you believe, if that’s what makes you happy, go with it and don’t worry about what someone else believes.
Omnipotent One,
I would have to disagree with the statement, “So whatever you believe, if that’s what makes you happy, go with it…” The Bible has clear truths laid out for us. If we say believe whatever makes us happy, we will believe that all mankind will go to heaven. But the Bible clearly states that whoever does not accept Christ as Savior will go to hell. John 3:18, 36 rev. 20:14, Romans 6:23…Jesus said I am the way the TRUTH and the Life no man cometh unto the Father but by me- John14:6. If we have no the truth the father is not in us. This is talked about in I John. 2: 21-25.
Back to the Trinity/ Godhead,
Concerning the godhead or trinity. According to a Mormon missionary I talked to, there are three separate gods- the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. separate in deity but one in purpose. However, when studying the Bible I found many verses that would say other wise.
Isaiah 43: 10 -Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isaiah 44:6 – Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Isaiah 44:8 – Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
You will see this message repeated throughout Isaiah 45 as well.
I John 5:7 – For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Heb 1: 8 – But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
If Jesus is separate from God the Father, then how God can refer to Him as God? Because the other verses clearly state that there is one God. Not many.
Even the Book Of Mormon says in Alma 11: 26 – 29 that there is “One true and living God.”
Again in Alma 11:38-39 saya that Jesus is the “very eternal Father”
verse 44 of the same chapter says ” Christ the Son,and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal Father.”
@Omnipotent, that is the reason why I stated that this was not my “opinion” and sent forth information from the NKJV of the bible. The point is contrary to what is expressed by your opinion. There was no attempt by me to define the infinite Almighty God or to say this is who GOD is defined as. God himself wants us to know Him and have a relationship with Him and stated who He is. That is the exact point of why He tells us who He is as demonstrated in the passages [noted at a minimum for example] of the Old Testament as well as the New Testament. As stated in Isaiah 55:8-9, His ways are higher than our ways. His thoughts are greater than our thoughts which is why His Word through the Son and the Holy Spirit of God have been revealed so that we might have this relationship.
This is His WAY, His Truth and His Life.
God Loves me and has revealed himself therfore I am blessed to be able to love Him as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit of God. Not the other way around.
In the New Testament I would refer to you the following for additional insight.
John 1:14 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John:1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
God’s Peace, Love and Spiritual Joy to all.
In Jesus Christ our Lord, God and Savior.
Amen