Comments on: Was Joseph Smith a Prophet?

By: Thaddeus

Thaddeus — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 19:20:21 +0000

Hi Dave! Thanks for returning. I hope you are well.

You indicated that you have done independent research and found convincing evidence that Joseph Smith was not a prophet. You believe that anyone with the courage to face these evidences will acknowledge that Joseph was not a prophet, and you are disappointed that so few people are interested in hearing your argument. You are proud of your own courage in resolutely facing these difficult issues and accepting their ramifications. You imply that a person's unwillingness to debate is directly related to their position's inherent weak defense. Is that all true?

There are many options for you to find someone willing to debate these matters. A great resource is mormondialogue.org, where you will find knowledgeable latter-day saints who are equipped with the necessary background information to talk about these topics with you.

By: Dave

Dave — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 16:36:42 +0000

To whomever responded back to my comments of June 1, 2011 or owns this web site.
I have studied church history, its doctrines and the lives of many individuals involved. My reason for doing the research was to answer the question; was Joseph Smith acting under divine appointment? I am not 100% sure of my conclusion but am reasonably sure that he was not. I don’t limit myself to the approved and official version of church history but limit my sources to testimony and information I consider to be truthful. Many of the events I talk about are alluded to in the official church history. I have, over the years, had many discussions with church members who protest to some of the things I have told them saying that they are either not true or taken out of context on my part. They then refuse to continue any further discussion with me. They take the view that some things are either too painful to look at or too sacred to put under scrutiny. In the two cases where friends were willing to have a “no holds barred” discussion and study of things pertaining to church history, both conceded that I was correct in the things I had told them. One left the church and the other, although still active has spent much time reconciling himself to the new understanding of things. I refuse to shun controversy because it is too painful or the notion that some things are too sacred to explore or beyond my capacity to understand. I find it difficult to engage any church member in the “no holds barred” discussion of things with out ostracizing them from me so I avoid attempting to do so in the interest of retaining them as friends. Both of the individuals mentioned above are still my friends but others I have attempted to engage in this type of discussion have dropped me as a friend after they refused to continue any further discussion. I have also discussed church history with non members but find they have little interest. I am open to a dialogue on the matter with any one who is interested. It doesn’t have to be made public although I would rather it be available for others. I am just happy for a forum for a dialogue.
I am of the opinion that there should be nothing under the sun that reasonable people cannot discuss respectfully no matter what the outcome.
Dave

By: Thaddeus

Thaddeus — Fri, 03 Jun 2011 09:55:57 +0000

Rich, I finally found a source for that quote in Life of Heber C. Kimball, pg. 333. I don't know for sure who Joseph thought he was, but in the context of the book, the prophet's quote is used to emphasize that we don't know all that God has to reveal to us and we may not be in a state to handle the revelations that are forthcoming. In other words, they may be so opposed to our imagined view of the Kingdom that we will reject them out of hand, even if they are true. One possible meaning is that Joseph was referring to the potential man has for divinity through the Lord's great plan of salvation. In fact, he was murdered just a few months after preaching that very thing at King Follett's funeral. Dave, I have done a lot of research on this question as well and I came to a different conclusion. Read my thoughts in Book of Mormon Evidence, and Testimonies of Witnesses. Also, you can find responses to the evidence you cited at the FAIR wiki.

By: Dave

Dave — Wed, 01 Jun 2011 15:15:28 +0000

I have studied to answer the question you pose for many years. In the spirit of “honesty is a greater virtue than faith” I have concluded that the answer is no. I have based this conclusion on many evidences. First of all I don’t believe that God would condone some of Joseph Smiths conduct such as pursuing other mens wives and then lying about it. Then there is the issue of the source of The Book of Abraham document surfacing in the 1960 which turns out to be something other than the writings of Abraham. Then there is The Kinder-hook Plates, false teachings and failed prophecies by Joseph and later prophets. I don’t have space here to document all of this but a little research on any ones part will uncover it. Lastly, the tremendous ego of Joseph Smith that is revealed in much of his communications that the “cleaned up” histories seem to omit is troubling to me. I view J. S. as the proverbial “BIG FROG IN A SMALL POND” in Aesop’s fables.

By: Rich

Rich — Wed, 11 May 2011 14:59:58 +0000

I understand the “burning” description if it refered to a revelation but “feelings” as we all know can be misguided.

Joseph Smith said, “Would
to God I could tell you who I am. Would to God I could tell you what I
know. But you would call it blasphemy and there are men on this stand that
would want to take my life.”

I’ve been trying to get an answer of “Who did Joseph Smith think he
was to say that?”

Thank you.